Bike upgrades or new bike

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DanDeKalb
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Re: Bike upgrades or new bike

Post by DanDeKalb »

Yeah, that would be on the long-term list of things to do until next summer :))

I'm not sure how much anyone can tune up this fork without proper parts because it's a coil fork. On an air fork I could just let out some pressure and be on my way.
I did however find an x-soft coil spring (>63kg) on sale for 27 euros (and 10 euros shipping), would you say it's worth it? I do like the bike and the fork, but I hope I'm not just throwing money at it and wasting it instead of changing the fork/bike.
I don't know if I'll gain the weight back until next year and then regret buying a very soft spring.
I guess for an air fork that wouldn't matter. I saw an ad for second-hand serviced forks, maybe I can trade-in my current fork and pay the rest cash (Rockshox Judy/Recon air with 9mm QR)? Would that be an option to consider if it's allowed?
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Re: Bike upgrades or new bike

Post by CDMC »

What i would do first, cause well its free. Ask a friend or put some weight in the backpack and see if it starts to move like before. 10Kg is not much to make your for going from normal to almost no movement.
Second, i would just take it apart and see if everything is in check, maybe need to grease it up or something? these are the first 2 things i would do.

What can cause a shock to go from normal to almost no travel is bad grease. I ride bikes in winter and i had grease that was not suited for shocks, so what would happen if its cold outside the shocks basically freeze up. Changed to better grease, never had a problem even at -15C

If the fork is fine and its actually is because you're -10kg, then get the springs. Like @Plane And Simple said there has to be springs from other brands or something out there, its just a spring, nothing to complicated

Also why i think it can't be you loosing 10kg is cause, step on a scale its gonna say like 60kg, now jump and see how high it will go :emoji23: it will go like 80+ or even 100kg, so you loosing 10kg is not enough to make the shock so stiff.
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Re: Bike upgrades or new bike

Post by Plane And Simple »

Yeah I mean as C says... I think thinking of a new bike for a badly tuned spring might be slightly over the top :emoji23: I'm sure there's something out there and with it being just a spring it's easy to replace and get back on track.

I did some quick math and the change from 70kg to 60kg for a somewhat standard bike spring would be a travel reduced by about 15% give or take. I don't think (As C also said) that's the sole factor of it acting weird.
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Re: Bike upgrades or new bike

Post by CDMC »

Plane And Simple wrote:
23 Sep 2020, 15:22
Yeah I mean as C says... I think thinking of a new bike for a badly tuned spring might be slightly over the top :emoji23: I'm sure there's something out there and with it being just a spring it's easy to replace and get back on track.

I did some quick math and the change from 70kg to 60kg for a somewhat standard bike spring would be a travel reduced by about 15% give or take. I don't think (As C also said) that's the sole factor of it acting weird.
yes that ^

its probably something very stupid or serious :emoji23: or stupid serious happen to your fork :emoji23:
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Re: Bike upgrades or new bike

Post by DanDeKalb »

I'll do an experiment tomorrow and report back. I'll load up a backpack with water bottles and go for a ride. If the travel improves then I know the coil is the problem.
Otherwise, maybe the fork needs a bit of care. I keep the stanchions clean of dirt most of the time but maybe it's in need for a service (I've had it since last year, but I rode it in the summer only). I intended to do a lower end service at the end of this season anyway. The recommended lower leg service interval is 25h and a full rebuild is 200h. I think a lower leg service is a good thing to do regardless if it fixes the stiffness issue or not, right?

My fork needs a few ml of damper oil, I need to buy some, 120ml is about 6 euros. I only need 15ml (10ml for spring leg, 5ml for damper leg) according to the manual. I do remember when I first bought the fork the oil/grease was oozing out of the seals, and now it looks a bit dry, maybe the rubber seals are slowing down the travel because there's not enough oil?
For the grease, what brand do you use? I see Rockshox recommends SRAM Butter, but that's pretty expensive (30ml for 8 euros? Insane).

I think I can handle it myself since I'm only doing the lower legs. I read the manual, I have to unscrew the lower legs, drain the oil, clean the stanchions and seals, lube them up and reverse.
Or should I just go to the local bike shop and let them handle it so I don't risk messing it up (could cost between 25-35 euros)?

Today I went for a ride and I didn't use more than 50mm of travel, I'm comparing it to the video I linked before and that guy had the same movement just by pedalling. The fork does move up and down smoothly, but I feel it's not enough.
I went through some ditches and over rocks, roots and it feels bumpy and harsh. I have the rebound on the fastest setting, that's what's recommended for my weight. I tried lifting the front wheel and dropping it while riding and it didn't use more than 75mm. Is this normal? Maybe I am too light. I didn't measure fork sag but it's around 15-20mm, I think.

I contacted Rockshox support about the springs and they said spring coils aren't readily available, but I could look into an air upgrade to replace the coil (so I can tune the pressure according to my weight no matter what). Those aren't in stock anywhere either, but it's an option I'd consider if the fork remains too stiff. I think it would cost about 50 euros when in stock.

I know 10kg may not seem like a lot, but I think there must be a reason why they produce different coils for more/less stiffness, right? Or why there are settings for different PSI for air forks according to rider weight. I was at the bottom of the 72kg-83kg interval last year, now I am at the bottom of yellow (63kg-72kg).
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Re: Bike upgrades or new bike

Post by CDMC »

okay man, and take no disrespect or what ever, but from i've seen you're pretty chill guy :D so listen; if your shock needs service already even when you basically just bought it, its fucking bullshit and the shock is shit! i have mine that i did service in like fuck....2012? never did one after and its fine, its absolutely fine and i ride like i stole the fucking thing :D no care in the world and its absolutely fine, so i think that 200h is a bit over the top and to exaggerated. when i got the bike i did like 3000+km in a year (give or take) the shock was fine, maybe it wobbles a bit more now, but its so minor that you really need to check for it to notice for a difference before and now

2.nd (wow engrish yes) maybe, its possible you're missing some oil, like i said before, take it apart and check :emoji106:
as for grease, i would not suggest buying anything but OEM, cause i didn't tried anything else. If you can find someone who you trust who had experience with these works and used other oil, ask them, i really can't help you and don't wanna say "just buy what ever its fine", so yea its expensive, but you know its the right thing and its gonna work cause manufacture said so :emoji17:

No, fuck it, you can do it, you are very what you say detailed?, exact?, what ever...you know what i mean, you can do it your self, and if you do it your self; first of, you will learn. Second, you will see if something is wrong and can fix etc. and you wont be scamed or being told other shit like wow you need new tire air cause your summer air is out of date already... :emoji23: Just do it your self if you have the proper tools :emoji106:

well if you slam your wheel down its good it doesnt bottom out so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

50E for air shock? WHAT? My take on Air ride, its nice, but it needs more maintenance and all that shit. If you really want to get air, well go for it, but i would still try to investigate the problem with your coil shocks. Cause if you can't fix that, what if the air one goes out or starts doing strange shit? Repairs are more expensive on those (i think?)

When you buy a Citroen, it doesn't say what pressure you need to pump the bags compared to your wight :emoji23: For bikes, its just look, this is so you don't bottom out. Cause some people go on extreme like 2 stories building or more jumps to a flat landing and if the fork snaps and gets in his head, its a big law suite...(EDIT: its "lawsuit" you potato for brains)
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Re: Bike upgrades or new bike

Post by DanDeKalb »

Yeah, I agree with you. I didn't ride this bike on any insane trails, and no jumps ever. The fork does its job but I feel it's a bit sticky/stiff sometimes, maybe as you said, it needs some more grease and oil.
I'm sure the 25h/200h interval is for rough riding in dirt and mud, it's just a thing they say to cover the most extreme scenario. A few weeks ago, even the guy at the bike shop said to come back next year for a service since only a year has passed.

I'll get some OEM oil and grease and do the service myself. Maybe I can find some at the local bike shop, I can't find SRAM Butter online in stock here. As for tools, I need a few hex/normal wrenches which I have. Shouldn't be too complicated.

Maybe I am exaggerating the issue, I read the small bump sensitivity can be reduced if dirt gets inside or the oil/grease dries. The fork works well on bigger bumps, but it's not as soft as the one in the video. So the lower leg service is the first thing I will do, next week probably.
It's probably a good thing I didn't bottom out my fork before, but maybe I am not riding hard enough to have more travel.

The air spring is definitely more complex and it can cause more problems. I am not 100% sure if there's something wrong with the coil but I'll find out.

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Re: Bike upgrades or new bike

Post by CDMC »

tool for derailer hanger straitiner or what ever its called is like 25E. i think mine is bent to, skips on last gear if you flor it :D
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Re: Bike upgrades or new bike

Post by DanDeKalb »

Yeah, that would have been useful to have, but it's fairly rare that you need such a tool.

Anyway, I went to get the products I need for the lower service: grease and oil. At the first local shop I visited, I got some RSP Slick Kick fork grease because I couldn't find any Rockshox recommended products. This is the grease recommended by Fox, so I think it's just as good. Costs 7 euros for 50g, that's the price everywhere.
However, I had to visit a different shop for the oil because they it wasn't in stock at the first. So I called the guy up, and I asked for "Rockshox 15w suspension oil" and he said he has oil but it's bulk for the shop, but if I come with a container he'll pour me some. So I went there with a jar and I got about 60-70ml. However, when he pulled out the bottle, it was Motul 15W Fork Oil, and that sells for about 15 euros/liter. He charged me 3 euros for what he poured for me. Feels bad, I don't want to go back there, feels like a ripoff. To be fair, that's how much it costs to buy Rockshox oil (rebranded Torco oil) but had I known, I'd have bought myself a liter of Motul instead. I'll be sure to do that when I need to replace the damper oil with 5w oil (needs 120ml).

So do you think it's ok to use that Motul oil for the fork? I looked at a chart here:
http://www.peterverdone.com/wiki/images ... y-Data.gif
And the one I got is about 50% thicker than what Rockshox uses. If he ripped me off, does he at least know how to work on bikes? Or will this oil make my fork feel slower? I'll only be adding 15ml in the lower legs for lubricating the stanchions.
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Re: Bike upgrades or new bike

Post by CDMC »

Really not sure man. Try it, see how it goes
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